Podcast Transcript
Ryan Loche: Welcome to the Church Collective Podcast. In this episode, I had the opportunity to talk to Sarah Kroger again. We had an episode with her, uh, when she was in Village Lights, uh, a few years ago, and it was incredible to be able to just see the through line of what the Lord has been doing in and through her life.
Man, I was personally deeply encouraged by the conversation. I think you are going to absolutely love it. Uh, be encouraged by this. There’s a lot to unpack about even putting lament in our worship services. What does it mean to question God? And that it’s okay to actually biblically wrestle with what the Lord’s doing in and through our lives.
So, I hope this is a blessing to you. Would love to hear about it. You can DM us on Instagram, shoot us a comment on YouTube, wherever you’re consuming this. Would love to hear from you, love to hear what you think about it. But here we go.
Sarah Kroger: , it really did start in the pandemic. Um, because when that happened. Everything’s shut down within the span of a day. And I was faced with like, what do I do now?
And what, what do I do? What is my life? Who am I? You know, all of these, like, just really started, um, trying to, yeah, figure out life. Um, and my husband and I would take these walks in our neighborhood every single day. We found ourselves walking through the seasons, literally. Um, day in and day out, like seeing a change in the trees, like literally like watching grass grow.
It felt like in some ways, um, but in other ways it was such a grounding experience for me. And it was such a time of, um, just this resurgence of like wonder and awe at who God is as our creator and as our provider and just his presence in the world around me, just a real season of wonder
Ryan Loche: and
Sarah Kroger: childlike.
Um, and then at the same time that that was happening, there was this, uh, shift in my faith that I had never experienced before of just like wrestling, starting to really wrestle with questions. And I think it was that season, that season was just really hard and, um, exposing in a lot of ways. And, uh, just, uh, Kind of like turned everything upside down in my life.
And so it would make sense that in my faith life, things would start to get hard as well. And, um, just a real season of desolation and, and walking through questioning and God for the first time in my faith, like, Feeling silent seemingly and distant and like, couldn’t felt like I couldn’t access him in the ways that I used to, like my prayer wasn’t working and my, I mean, all of these things just blocks and, um, just, yeah, it just felt like a real season of wondering and question questioning as opposed to like also a season of wonder, like a season of wondering at the same time.
And so just tried to write songs from both of those places as honestly as possible. And The, the result has been this project, this album that, um, kind of has both. It’s a mixture of questioning and, and resting in the wonder of God. And, um, yeah, a real mix of both. It feels like. My collection of Psalms from over the past few years, um, Psalms that speak to, you know, like the Psalms do, like the depths of despair and darkness, and then Psalms that speak to like the wonder and the beauty and the, you know, just these like full of faith, trust in God, um, and everything in between and recognizing that that’s just a part of the faith life.
And for whatever reason, I haven’t had to walk through that, uh, until recently. But recognizing what a gift desolation really can be actually, and what a tool it can be in your faith. Um, so yeah, I mean, that’s a lot, there’s like a lot there and it’s like the deep end of the pool of spiritual life, but, um, it feels real and it feels like a lot of people are also walking through that right now.
And, and it’s helpful in that it just makes you feel less alone and less crazy, you know?
Ryan Loche: Yeah. Well, I mean, you and I were talking before we hit record, just the, the surreal nature of just, I mean, even just, I guess these past four years, basically. Um, yeah. And I think like, there’s a lot of worship leaders, songwriters that are like resonating with what you’re saying.
Like there, there’s more to the scope of God. Um, I, I, I was watching, I’ve got a quote from you from the last time you were on our podcast, like a year ago. Or two years ago, you said God’s a lot more wild than we give him credit for, and we want, we need him to be more unbounded. What, what is that? I mean, so from two years to now, like how has that, I mean, it seems like you were, you were getting, or not getting it, but like God was revealing that to you then.
And it sounds like God’s like brought a lot of that to fruition, but
Sarah Kroger: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I, I really resonate with that statement. It’s funny that I said that because sometimes you say things and you’re like, Oh, I said that interesting. That must have been a God thing at the time because it’s true. I think maybe it’s as worship leaders or just as people in general, like mystery is not comfortable.
And, um, Not being able to put something in our little box and understand it and, and figure it out and have the answers for everything and all of that. Like, especially as a worship leader, I have recognized in this past two years in particular, how uncomfortable it is to be leading a place from. Just being a student rather than like, I am a worship leader and I should know all the answers and I should know all the, all the things and I shouldn’t be struggling with my faith behind the scenes because isn’t that what we’re supposed to do in ministry?
We’re supposed to like, be the ones that have it all together. And it’s like, well, But on another level, isn’t that the best place for God to have us in a place of humility and recognizing I actually don’t have all the answers to all the questions because we don’t and we won’t and God is a mystery in and of himself and faith is actually believing in what you cannot see again and again and again.
And so, To me, it’s actually been this beautiful kind of humbling process of recognizing like, Oh, I never, I never had it all together. I never do the depths of who God is. And, and I never will like, that’s what the journey of faith is. That’s what the journey of life is, is continuing to dive into, um, the heart of God and recognizing that That mystery is going to be a mystery that continues to unfold in our lifetime and beyond.
And, um, you know, even in heaven, like it will constantly be learning and diving deeper into the heart of God and his love. And because he’s just. in some ways just unknowable, you know, in a, in a, in that way, which is a mystery. Like that is mind blowing to me that he is knowable, but, but also omnipotent and like these things that these characters about God that we just cannot understand.
Like that is comforting to me in a season when the questions are loud and when he feels distant, like that’s comforting to me to Yeah. You, you won’t know the depths of God on this side of heaven. And that’s A beautiful, humbling thing and, um, and an encouraging thing when, when you’re walking through the desert, you know,
Ryan Loche: right.
Was it, I’d love to hear, was it encouraging at the start of this questioning and the talk, talk me a little bit on you’re on this side of it. I can hear people saying like, I don’t know what, like, I don’t resonate with that whatsoever. I’m in the questioning phase. Like what, what would you say to that? I mean, especially like you said, the worship leaders, the pastors, like we’re the banner carriers for the church.
So it’s almost like it’s a shameful thing if we even have questions in our own mind and we definitely can’t admit it to anybody because we’re supposed to be the leader. So talk to maybe that leader.
Sarah Kroger: Yeah. Well, and I think that that’s exactly where the devil wants us to be honest, is in isolation because it feels too vulnerable.
It feels shameful to be having questions. It feels shameful to be questioning things or, or wrestling with things. And, uh, it’s just not the case. It’s just a lie. Uh. Honestly, what has helped me in this time is opening up about it and having community that I, I mean, and you don’t have to be honest and open with every single person, but like a few trusted people that can walk through you with walk in it with you and recognize, like, as I’ve been walking through this season, that’s been The most grounding thing for me is recognizing that I’m not the only one who has walked through it and gotten to the other side or who’s in it right now and recognizing, yeah, I’m not alone.
And there’s no shame to be found in that, especially as you’re continuing to walk through it and trying your best to find God in the midst of it. No, I honestly, in the last like month, I’ve had a breakthrough finally. And it’s been like maybe a year and a half of just darkness and silence and wrestling and.
Not understanding why and feeling like a block with God and like, why am I in this desert? I didn’t ask for this. I didn’t ask for this desolation. I don’t understand it Really being kind of a brat and whiny in the midst of it. Just like what are you doing Lord? I don’t understand
Ryan Loche: sure
Sarah Kroger: and if there’s anything that I’ve learned in the last few years, it’s that God wants our honesty.
He desires our honesty. And it’s in those places where we can recognize like, uh, like I have, I have been pushed to trust God on a deeper level than I understood that I could, that I was capable of, if that makes sense. I have never had to trust God this deeply. And it, it’s, it really is like holy work. Uh, it’s hard work, but it feels like holy work.
And I’m telling you. Maybe if you had had this interview a month ago, I don’t know that I would have been able to say, I mean, I’m serious. Like, I don’t know that I would have been able to say that, but I feel like the Lord through community really in the last couple of months specifically has really led me into a place where I’m still, I’m still wrestling.
It’s not all resolved, but I, I’m like more capable to take one step in front of the other and recognize at the end of this, maybe there’s fruit. At the end of this season that I wouldn’t have gotten to otherwise, if I had tried to avoid it, circle around it, just avoid the mess. And, um, so yeah, I’m, I’m trying to be encouraging because it’s really fricking hard in the midst of it.
And, and also trying to be honest about it, because for me, when I was in the midst of it, not a lot of people are talking about this. A lot of people talk about the D word deconstructing and leaving. And some people I understand there’s church trauma. There’s church hurt. There’s, there’s a lot of people who are leaving because of real serious hurt in the church.
But for me, this felt more of a unraveling of sorts of unraveling bad theology that I had about God, things that I, that were not true in the, to begin with. And it’s a painful process. It’s a hard process of sifting through that. Um, but recognizing that you can do that and still have a faith at the end of that, that’s even more deeper and rich and a relationship with Jesus.
That’s even more deep and rich. That’s the hope of this season that I’m walking through.
Ryan Loche: I mean, you, you, you touched the catchphrase of the deconstructing. I’d love to hear what’s your encouragement to, cause that’s the danger when we’re heading into these questioning times, is it just all. For a year and a half to have no God, and then even for you to be writing this music in the thick of that, and to say you’re just only coming out of that, like, what?
What were you holding on to?
Sarah Kroger: I mean, I, it’s a good question. I think what I was holding on to is my relationship with him, the history of our relationship and just falling back. On that history and recognizing that God has shown up in my life in ways that I cannot explain away in ways that the doubting did not explain away in ways that science has not explained away in ways that anyone else, you know, whether they’re, they believe or not, it just.
there’s tangible experiences that I’ve had with God in my life that I cannot, uh, escape from. And so that history, I was able to fall back on even in the midst of times where I did not feel him, where I couldn’t perceive him. But then in other ways, I was perceiving him and experiencing him in ways like a conversation like this, that I didn’t necessarily like, because I was so desperate to experience God.
It was like, Oh, this is. Experiencing love and God’s presence, like a conversation or a good meal with friends or walking through nature. Like I, I experienced him in other ways beyond even the ways that I thought I had to, like, I have to be in my blue chair in my house and get my journal out and, and have my scripture.
And that was the way that I encountered God. And it was like, but there’s, he’s so much bigger. He’s so much. Like I said, two years ago, like he’s so much more expansive and present to us at every moment of every day, whether it’s in nature or in the sunshine or in a conversation or whatever. And so in some ways I was experiencing him in completely different ways than I’d ever before.
And so it was kind of a mix of just trying to surrender to the moment. And, um, even though I was frustrated that. The things that always worked weren’t working anymore. I tried to allow God to expand my horizons of who he is and his presence in my life. And so it really though community, and then just relying on my history with him and our relationship and looking back on his faithfulness.
And
Ryan Loche: sure.
Sarah Kroger: Yeah. Recognizing that desolation, like that’s a real, that’s a real thing. And it actually is a tool that God uses sometimes as much as I hate it. And as much as I don’t understand it, it’s like, it’s like his way, death and resurrection is his way. You know, over and over again, we see it in creation.
We see it in the, in the story that we just celebrated at Easter. We see it. In the Gospels, we see it over and over again in our lives. God uses that to, uh, to bring new life and to bring new seasons. And so, I’d have to believe that that’s a part of this story too, you know?
Ryan Loche: Yeah, man, that’s, um, I think, I’m sure so many people resonate.
Like, we all, we all will say, That wilderness times, desolation, being in the darkness, God uses that and it’s but but we always seem to speak of it from the mountaintop and it’s always like but we never want to like be in the valley and like, like you were saying to like the Psalms, Deuteronomy 40 years in the way like God use these times, like walks us through.
Difficult times. And it’s always a lot longer than we would think it would be. And then, but yeah, our modern understanding of God is like, well, it’s always mountaintops and it’s always to the next level when it’s like, no, he needs to tear some things, but yeah.
Sarah Kroger: That’s great. Uh, I agree with you. I think.
especially in this day and age of, uh, just the way that modern churches are or, uh, even social media, you know, like it’s so all the
Ryan Loche: highlights. Yeah.
Sarah Kroger: It’s all the highlights. It’s all the good times. It’s really hard to talk about the seasons that are dark. And, um, and it was really hard for me, honestly, to come around the idea of sharing some of these songs because of that, because it’s so vulnerable and it feels like.
To be honest, sometimes Christians can feel like the most judgmental, um, really, honestly, and I just want to combat that. Like I just, I, we should be the most understanding and, and I’ve always heard this, you know, church described as like, it’s not a mausoleum of saints. It’s a hospital for the broken. And I just want to, I want to get back to that more and more.
I know that there are so many churches that do do that. And that is so beautiful, but I feel like We need to continue to do that and be a place for people to bring their honest selves, whatever it is that they’re walking through to bring themselves and, and recognize, like for me, bringing my honesty to God, um, he hasn’t turned away and he’s met me there, uh, in more ways than I can count.
And so,
Ryan Loche: yeah,
Sarah Kroger: to just encourage people to bring their honest selves to God.
Ryan Loche: Yeah. Does, uh, is there any like specific song you talk about that’s some very vulnerable stuff? Is there a song story that really comes to mind when you, when you’re talking about that?
Sarah Kroger: Um, no filter, which is the first song that I released from the album.
Um, yeah. It doesn’t really resolve. It’s just a song from the pits of darkness and, um, brings up questions that I was wrestling through at the time. And I remember writing that song with my friend Savannah and I wanted to die. I mean, I, I was, I was like, I felt like I could curl up in a corner and just be like, no, I, this song is just for me.
No one is ever going to hear this thing. Like it’s too vulnerable. It’s too honest. And then my label heard it and they were like, uh, We’re going with that one first. No, what, what are you talking about? But as again, as I’ve had these conversations with people, I’ve been met with nothing but kindness and generosity and people who are like, thank you for saying that in a song, because I need, we need songs in the lament just as much as we need songs for the mountain tops and everything in between and recognizing that I needed that song.
I needed that song in that moment. Which is a part of what makes it really special to me. And I still am grateful that, uh, my label kind of championed it and rallied around it and challenged me to be like, no, you, it’s okay, you can do this. And, um, it’s been met with nothing but kindness from people, which I’ve been really grateful for.
Um,
Ryan Loche: and
Sarah Kroger: hopefully it can help someone else on their own journey when they’re in the midst of that questioning and. Yeah.
Ryan Loche: Yeah. Well, I mean, to have a song of lament, I mean, that’s entirely biblical, right? The Psalms are, I always think of like David, like there’s, there’s some Psalms that are very dark and they don’t like, some of them end like, Oh God, but you’re awesome.
But like some of them are like, I’m just kill me. He’s just like, call it a day.
Sarah Kroger: Yeah. I know. I know.
Ryan Loche: I
Sarah Kroger: know. It’s, it’s wild. When you really look at scripture or, or like lamentations or, I mean, all kinds of places in scripture where, or Job’s story, I mean, all kinds of places where you’re like, this is just a, this is again, a part of life.
It’s way easier and it sells more to talk about all the good things, you know, like it’s, it’s from a branding perspective, it’s great to talk about all the good things that God does in your life, but then.
Ryan Loche: Right.
Sarah Kroger: Um, the refining, like the things that no one else really, uh, can see sometimes those refining moments are hard, are difficult, um, but they’re worth it.
They’re worth it because that’s where the gold I think is really found. And again, I don’t know that I would have been able to say that even a month ago. Um, but God is, uh, Yeah, is good and kind and faithful and has been walking me into towards the light. It’s not all resolved yet, but it feels like I can see the light on the horizon and, um, and recognizing that this time ultimately has been purifying in a lot of ways.
And that’s the life of a disciple, you know, some seasons are really great and really awesome. And some are, Refining and recognizing that that’s just a part of the journey. Yeah.
Ryan Loche: But even as you’re saying that, like, it makes me wonder just even so I’m 42, 20 years in worship ministry and all that thinking of even like the altar call times where it’s like, we want you to come and accept the Lord.
And when you accept the Lord, it’s going to be amazing. And yeah, in the strictest sense, it’s amazing because we have the Lord, but
Sarah Kroger: yeah,
Ryan Loche: you don’t, you don’t, nobody really quotes Jesus like in this world, you’re going to have trouble, but take heart. Cause you got me. But like, we treat it more like, well, we’re going to be healthy, wealthy, and wise when we accept the Lord.
Um,
Sarah Kroger: Yeah.
Ryan Loche: I guess like, what advice would you have for even just the worship leader, the lead pastor? How do we, you know, there’s nothing inherently wrong with trying to help people come to know the Lord, but how do we, how are we open and honest with our call for them?
Sarah Kroger: Yeah, I think that’s a really good question.
And one that I’m asking myself as I lead ministry, you know, is I don’t want to lead people to doubt. I don’t want to lead people to questioning. You know, it’s not like I’m like, I’m getting on stage and I’m like, this is what I’ve been walking through, you know, but, but, you know, Leading from an honest place of like, I, sometimes I just don’t know, like sometimes I’m just really wrestling and God meets me there.
So like, like just, I think people really desire authenticity and desire the honest truth. And the truth is that again, there are good days and bad days with faith. You’re going to have those moments where you. You are just in the presence of God. You are in his love for you. It feels amazing. But just like any relationship in life, right?
Like with my husband, our, our, our relationship has changed as we’ve aged. We’ve become different people. Sometimes. I feel like all the bubbles and all the, you know, the wonders and the magic of love when I look at him. And sometimes I don’t, but that’s, that doesn’t mean that we’re any less in love with one another.
It’s just the deepening of love. The, the, the deeper that love gets, the more rooted you are. And, and the more, um, sweetness that there is truly that I couldn’t conjure up that like that only time. Allows for. And so the same is true for our relationship with God. Like there are going to be good days and bad days and, um, finding those people that you can talk to you in the midst of those bad days and not keeping it a secret, not, not hiding away from it.
Um, I think is the best for people in leadership, especially just recognizing like there’s times where you need extra support and, and don’t hide. Like that’s, what’s getting us in trouble is hiding.
Ryan Loche: Yep.
Sarah Kroger: Trying to not share about the things that we’re struggling with. So don’t allow the devil, honestly, to put you in isolation, like find those people who are safe for you and to open up with and can journey with and, and be honest, be honest with God.
That’s what he is desiring from us more than ever, I think.
Ryan Loche: What do you think has, um, I mean, I’m a worship professor too, so like I teach worship students and I feel like I say often to them, it feels like there’s something shifting in what we want out of worship and what we want out of church. And I think like authenticity is probably a thing.
I think most people would agree we want lament, although we’re still kind of, you know, In our planning, our services are still pretty much happy, rah, rah, like they don’t have a lot of lament built in there, but I’d love to kind of hear just what is, what’s your sense of like, or even what is your hope for what, what is church looking like here in five and ten years is like these students are becoming worship ministers and what are you hoping this gets to?
Oh, that’s a loaded question. Literally, I’m thinking like, I’m thinking this all the time, and I was just like, I don’t know the answer. So I just ask as many people as I can.
Sarah Kroger: I don’t know the answer either. I know what I desire for when I’m leading worship, which is, Honesty, again, honesty, I can’t escape from that word authenticity coming as you are not as you think you should be not comparing yourself to Joe Schmo down the street or on Instagram or the way that, you know, I’m not going to name names, but other people do it on and it’s flashy and it’s big and it’s bombastic.
It’s like. Man, I, I have been drawn more and more into the secret place and into just desiring to, um, find God in the quiet and the silence in, in the small in, and sometimes I feel like we’ve made it that it has to be like this show in order to engage people, like the Taylor Swift thing, or you know, like this, there’s this pressure to make church like super engaging and in your face and loud.
And it’s like, man, I, I feel more and more. So like God, um, I want to make space for him to do whatever he wants to do. And sometimes the Holy spirit is I mean, all the time, the Holy Spirit is wild, can’t be tamed, can’t be held into a 10 minute worship slot. Unfortunately,
Ryan Loche: I
Sarah Kroger: know that that’s how it has to go on Sundays.
You have to have your time for things, but like as more, the more that we can just like breathe into worship especially and allow God to do what he wants to do, it doesn’t have to feel like I have to fit in these amount of songs and I’m doing these songs and like the more that we can allow, um, uh, yeah.
Space for God to truly come in there and lead those moments. I think the better, and I don’t know how to accomplish that within a time frame. Um, but I do think it starts with the worship leader, just being flexible and being willing to follow. Um, if, if the Lord is like, no, we’re not going to that song. We need this tag of a, of this song or whatever, just being more, uh, flexible.
if possible, I think would be really beautiful.
Ryan Loche: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s on the tactical level. I’d love to hear your thoughts on how do you prepare for spontaneous like moments of worship? Because I think there can also be a danger in, Oh, well, I see lots of spontaneous on YouTube and Instagram. So now I’m going to spontaneous and, you know, sometimes we fall flat on our face because we just are emulating what we see.
So there’s like, speak, speak a little bit. What are you feeling in the room? How do you know when it’s time to stay on something versus is it just, you know, My own ego. That’s like, no, I’m going to keep singing this. Cause I like this line. Like, how do we get past that?
Sarah Kroger: Man, this is something I’ve been really thinking about deeply because I feel like, um, there’s so much video content nowadays that we see how other churches are doing or how other environments are.
And for me, for a long time, I felt this pressure of like, if the people in the room are not. Full on, you know, like hands in the air and speaking in tongues. And it’s not like that. I’m not doing my job and I’m not doing a good job of being a worship leader. It’s like, man, there are times where I’m at a worship gathering and I’m just like quiet.
I’m not even singing. I, I would, for all intents and purposes, not look like I’m engaged at all, but I am deeply engaged in the worship. Like worship does not equal. Charismatic necessarily that that doesn’t necessarily mean that people in the room aren’t responding. And so for me, it’s been this divorcing of like emotion and, um, the outer expression of worship from like, truly like worship leading and recognizing that worship leading is truly just trying to lead the room in an encounter with God.
That’s really what we’re trying to do is lead people in prayer. And sometimes. That’s being an example yourself of what that looks like, like from an, from an outer perspective, sometimes it’s just truly like trying to read the room and recognize, okay, these people, maybe they don’t want to express it in that way, but that doesn’t mean that they’re not encountering God and that we’re not still entering into this moment together.
And so just being flexible and being, um, humbled by that and recognizing that God’s going to lead the room the way he wants to. Um, and we’re just trying to be. Yeah. Servants of the moment and yeah. Recognizing that it doesn’t have to always be this emotional thing in order for it to be authentic. And, uh, that’s a, it’s a wrestling for me sometimes like, Oh man, that didn’t feel like I experienced when I watched it on YouTube.
And it’s like, well, but that doesn’t mean that God didn’t do something in that room, you know? So. I think just trying to constantly be at the feet of God in private, right? Uh, is probably the answer. And because if we can’t hear his voice in a secret quiet place where we’re not leading worship, when no one’s looking at us, like, how are we supposed to hear his voice in the public space?
How are we supposed to follow where he leads? Um, so recognizing that, that truly that time in the secret places is maybe more important than anything else as worship leaders.
Ryan Loche: Well, and how, how dangerous is it, dangerous is it when we, um, I mean, I’m guilty of this too. You come off the stage like, wow, what an incredible time.
And like, I’m literally just looking for, you know, loud voices, hands high. But like, I know in my heart, I know academically, you know, like through the Bible, I know biblically that’s not the case, but how, you know. Often do I just like define myself, my, my leadership and my ability on, Oh, the room was singing loud.
Sarah Kroger: Yeah. That’s
Ryan Loche: hard.
Sarah Kroger: Yeah, exactly. And yeah, it’s really hard to, to kind of divorce yourself from that and, um, and be detached from that. And. Yeah. But again, I think what’s helped me is like recognizing that sometimes for me as a worshiper, if I’m being led in worship, there are times where I am like full on, like David dancing before the Lord, like just like wild about it.
And there are times where I just want to, uh, sit there and just be still and allow someone else to sing for me. And that’s worship in and of itself too, you know, everything in between. So that’s really helped me in those, in those times to be like, okay, it’s not personal. It’s not personal, you know, um, this is just about what God, the work that God is doing and trying to be.
The best steward of that moment.
Ryan Loche: Yeah. Right. When I’m sure we all have stories of, you know, seeing somebody in the back with their arms crossed. They’re not even participating, but they come up afterwards like, oh, it’s amazing. Like, you’re like, what? Like, you didn’t look like you care.
Sarah Kroger: Yeah. Yeah. We just gotta not pay attention to that.
Maybe sometimes, you know, or, or just not let it completely take over the moment.
Ryan Loche: Do you have
Sarah Kroger: discouraged?
Ryan Loche: Yeah, yeah. On your, coming back to the music a little bit, do you have any, um, testimony or stories from people that have been impacted by your music at this point? I know there’s, we’re still like waiting to release all of it, but like where, what’s, what’s been coming through?
Sarah Kroger: Oh my gosh, specifically with no filter. I think I had this feeling that when I released it that it was going to be like instant cancel. Um, because that’s just the culture we’re living in right now, right? Cancel culture. Um, but it has been the exact opposite. So many messages from people just saying you put into words what I’ve been feeling and I thought that I was crazy and I thought that that was the only one.
And I was like me too. So thank you for messaging me. Um, It’s just been a lot of people who felt encouraged in their own season of walking. I mean, people that are even in ministry with me, you know, who are saying that to me and, and being like, you should do this in a worship set. And I never thought of that song as a worship song, you know, ever.
I just thought of it as a lament, like contemplative song, but, um, bringing yourself. Again, bringing your full, honest self into worship is, is a part of it. And even knowing how to worship through the lament, um, and recognizing that that’s a part of it too. And so it’s just been, it’s been really beautiful.
I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna lie. It’s been really helpful, um, for me and encouraging for me and my own students. Spiritual life to recognize that I’m not alone in it either. And that there are people who are, who are silently wrestling through it and don’t know where to go and, um, experiencing shame like I did.
And, um, and hopefully now they have a song at least that, that can, yeah, just help them to come to the Lord in that questioning. And so it’s been really beautiful. Um, and I’m really excited to share the rest of the songs with, with people and hopefully they just are able to experience their own journey in the midst of it too.
Ryan Loche: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. As always, head on over to Instagram and shoot us a DM. That’s kind of our go to place to get in touch. We have some really cool stuff for you and your team. We have some training material that we’ve put together that we want to give you access to. By the time we’re putting this episode out, it’s probably already out there that what we’re doing. But again, shoot us a DM. We would love to directly connect with you. We’d love to get you plugged in. We have incredible things coming and incredible resources available for you to make your team the best it possibly can be. God bless you today.