Podcast Transcript
Welcome to the church collective podcast in this episode We had the opportunity to talk to alexander papas once again, and it is always a fun conversation It’s awesome to hear just where his heart is for local worship ministry and what’s going on both in the church globally And it’s his local church down in la.
So here we go with the church collective podcast
Alexander Pappas: a lot has happened. I moved to America from back to America from Australia. It has been a personally and professionally wild journey. But in the church answer, the bullet point is that in and through that, the Lord’s been really kind and I’ve just seen him show up in so many ways.
Obviously a little bit, we’ll talk a little bit more, but last time we spoke, I was, I felt really, felt like the Lord was to, as well as worship stuff, writing songs that I called Monday Music. Talking about songs that encourages believers and non believers, people who have maybe shut the door on God, or they feel like He shut the door on them.
And I’m so proud of those songs, and those were so significant. But I really felt the Lord, Clearly speak like a year ago about what he wants to do on the earth. I feel even just since we spoke I referred to the last couple of years in many ways is the great overcorrection of certain value.
priorities, changing it in a lot of people and a lot of hearts. And and I think, I feel like the Lord’s about to do something significant on the earth. And about a year ago, I, I said a prayer, God, I feel like you’re about to do something and I don’t know what it is and I don’t know what my part in it might be, but you have my yes.
And and just I’ve been operating in that space, and then a year on, it was only when the song, A Great Awakening just came out, that it was a little bit of a trip, that it was like, man I prayed that prayer exactly 12 months ago. And this offering to the body of Christ to the bride and I don’t know, I don’t know what part again, I still don’t know what part it’s all going to play and whatever the Lord wants to do, but I’m just day by day, given my yes.
Chris Bellamy: What part, like what part of the states did you move back to? Did you move, you were from California originally, right?
Alexander Pappas: Correct. Good memory. Yeah, I’m back in LA, kind of Marina del Rey, Venice area. It’s like Sydney if it had a substance problem, and so it felt the same.
Chris Bellamy: I vaguely remember you being in California because a buddy of mine, Kenny Lachey, I think he mentioned something about you being there a while back. That’s how I remember.
Alexander Pappas: Yeah. Yeah. Kenny and I hung out, I got kicked out of Australia in 2019 and we hung out a bit back then, but then yeah, moved back next month will be two years.
Chris Bellamy: Cool. Yeah, I wasn’t sure. I was like, is he in Nashville or, cause you never know. Nashville.
Alexander Pappas: I was, I think last year I spent 50 percent of my time there.
I should have legally moved to switch that tax residency, but I didn’t. I’m California.
Chris Bellamy: Yeah so Or have you joined a church at all? Or what are you what’s the season looking like?
Alexander Pappas: Yeah, man I’m a part of Hillsong Hillsong, Los Angeles. Oh, we meet in a, we meet in downtown LA.
We bump in a venue and bump out every week, which is, I know many people have that experience which I have not before it’s new, but yeah, man, I. It’s obviously been, it’s no secret that it’s been a wild couple of years, but I feel like the Lord has called me to stay and I’m here and building the church and some of my best friends are here and still here.
And it’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful local church.
Chris Bellamy: That’s super cool. I actually went to the very first official meeting of Hillsong LA when they transitioned from like doing like house stuff, I can’t remember where it was in a club that they rented out. But it was like was young and
Alexander Pappas: was young and free there.
Chris Bellamy: I can’t remember Cuz
Alexander Pappas: Young and free did the first like heart and soul night at a club downtown, LA.
Chris Bellamy: Yeah, it must have been yeah, cuz it was like the first the very first one I remember just like thinking I was getting there super early and it was so hard to find parking and I went in yes as it started, but yeah, I haven’t really heard much from it since then.
So I didn’t know it was still going strong.
Alexander Pappas: Yeah. Naturally, like a lot of churches. It’s post COVID. It went through its season of transition and stuff, but man, we are, we’re just experiencing like just normal, gradual growth and people coming to church, people getting saved and yeah, it’s like truly like in the many ways that our reputation has been like, obviously so grand in, in the way people come.
That’s not necessarily the case anymore, but we’re just building a great local church, man, and great community that people can find there. I’m, I really love it.
Chris Bellamy: You have a staff position there?
Alexander Pappas: I do not. I was a full time creative pastor in Sydney for I was just over 10 years when I moved.
And I am I still do something, Part time for our brands for Hillsong worship, but as far as like the local church, no, I just volunteer
Chris Bellamy: So what like musical endeavors you got coming up?
Alexander Pappas: Yeah, man. So as I said, as I said before like I States to be a, to give, have a go at being a full time songwriter and artist.
And I moved over to Los Angeles under the expectation that we, I would have like still all my normal amount of Hillsong tours happening and then I would just do my stuff on top and then we ended up canceling all of those tours just to circle the wagons a little bit and go through a little bit of a healing process, which was great on one hand, but for me, it was terrifying.
as I moved to like LA is like twice or three times as expensive as Sydney to essentially not having a job. And and so yeah, two years now doing that and ministry engagements and going to churches and I’ll go spend, three, four days with the church, like writing and speaking at a creative night or a youth night or.
And then leaving work, ministering on a Sunday. Which has been awesome. I feel like I’ve made some lifelong friends and all that stuff, but yeah, like along all that journey, I set out writing what I was saying. I wrote Monday music. When Young and Free started, the testimonies I loved hearing the most among people encountering Jesus was the unchurched or the people who have left church that felt ministered to by those songs.
So I was always trying to write songs for Young Free that would speak to those people. And I think that’s fine. I think there’s nothing wrong with that heart space, but you can imagine that Young Free at the end of the day was a worship band and for young people, like for full of energy, full of faith.
And so I think I for a little while I was trying to make it, I was trying to write something that it wasn’t. And so that inspired me to write those sort of songs. To be, if you will, a door holder for people that are struggling who are on their way out of the faith walk or have shut the, tried to shut the door on God.
And I’m really proud of those songs and those songs that are still super special to me. But yeah, I personally went through some pretty serious. crisis on top of some church stuff and leading me to this place of really feeling strongly to write songs again for the church.
And like I said like a prayer like a year ago. And then so led to, I wrote this song recently called A Great Awakening and it’s it’s weird to say. Something like this when I have been a part of so many great songs and ministry moments, through the years But I’ve never Maybe it was just a lack of maturity Along those times just excited for songs to come out, but i’ve never felt such a weight of responsibility for a song And the song itself, is very the language within it is like, God, we’re praying for revival like the world has never seen.
We’re praying that the things that we’ve done, there’s been documented throughout history, mighty moves of God, undeniable moves of God. We’re praying that you do it again. And for anybody who writes songs or anybody who leads worship, like we know that. I feel like maybe I could be wrong here but starting with like spirit breakout like that song like 10 years ago like I remember hearing like Kim, I think I saw kim walker lead at first and I was just like Revival like yes, like I’m here for it.
I’m praying for it. I’m with you and I think as a writer I was trying to put that in so many songs and in seasons of church life like we had months see like series of being like revival nights and and our teaching pastors breaking down What revival, how it started, what it looks like, what it needs to be, how it starts with us and surrender and repentance and as a church believing for it.
And candidly, I’ve not seen it. I’ve not seen what would be documented as Revival in with my own two eyes and and so we’re writing this song about you know Praying for another mighty move of God and we get to this chorus and we’re writing God We’re praying for revival like the world has never seen and I was like, hey, can we find another word not revival?
Can we strive for can we search for something else? And it was in that moment that I I was reminded of You This is maybe October last year. I was reminded of this scripture that comes from Joshua chapter six, where angel of the Lord goes to Joshua and he’s about to tell Joshua, give the order.
Like you’re going to march around the city for days. And then in the last day, lift up, shout praise. And, but the thing that jumped out to me was that he says, before he says the command, he says, behold, I’ve already given you the city. And I was so struck by that before they even stepped out He reminded them of the victory that like he already has of his plan and his purpose that he’s already designed for us and so many other levels to that but I hit this proverbial Jericho wall in perhaps my faith in perhaps My just my songwriting or whatever, but I don’t want to say You I don’t want to sing about this.
I don’t want to write about this because I’m fatigued by it. And I was reminded that we don’t live in a covenant that is we’re waiting to see the result of a fight between Jesus and the devil. We know the result, but we exist in a world that is heading in a direction that is rejecting the truth, that is rejecting the way and rejecting the life.
And my faith, me personally, I like, I think maybe I’ve been stepping into agreement with the wrong word that oh, maybe revival can’t take place. Maybe Jesus is coming back soon. I don’t know. But ultimately it was in that moment. I was like, I feel like I can choose faith. At this Jericho wall and step into agreement with the victory that he has already given us or I could not and so really lent in to Saying something like we’re praying for revival like the world has never seen and I don’t know what a song could be Plays in that so that i’m giving the world’s longest answer to the easiest question But at the end of the day all that to say is what I am stepping into and believing for is powerful moments in the presence of god like full of faith to believe for miracles salvations and ultimately even audacious enough to pray and believe for revival.
And so trying to write songs that would equip the saints, that would equip the bride with songs of faith and songs to respond to who he is.
Ryan Loche: I’d love to hear it’d be like, like you said, people are either, they’re going full deconstruction or like they hit this stuff and they run away from it, but it’s always encouraging to hear you’re still believing for it and you’ve wrestled with it and you’re still pushing forward.
But what would you say to, I’m sure there’s people that are listening or watching that resonate with the idea of. Yeah, I’ve been, singing for revival and I’m not seeing it. I’ve been praying for healing and I haven’t seen it. Like what encouragement might you have for the person that’s wanting to throw their hat in?
And yeah, I haven’t seen it. So I’m out.
Alexander Pappas: Yeah. My, this is, this has been a life blood for me. is, I think we don’t talk enough about that faith is a spiritual gift. Of the spiritual gifts listed, we love to talk about prophecy. We’re like, oh we love to talk about healing, and these, and these are tongues, whatever and it’s even though faith is the foundation.
of what we, of our faith in a word. Yet like as far as like spiritual gifting goes, it’s like a, it’s the funny cousin that we’re just like, oh yeah he’s part of the family, but we’re not like. And, for me, it has just been like obviously as a worship leader I think to put it in the most, for me, in a practical form, it is my stewarding of the gift of faith.
Is so much more powerful in a congregational worship setting than Me yelling and me shouting and me Making a great plan and me singing well or my Drummer playing and click like obviously those things matter and they are distractions if they’re not right But the stewarding the gift of faith I just I am so I think it funny that we don’t talk about like man on the days that I’m struggling to believe on the days that I towards doubt.
Holy Spirit, help me with the gift of faith. You would not approach hey, will you come pray? Will you come lay hands on my sick family member? You would stir up the gift. You would lean, you would ask the Holy Spirit for help for the gift of healing. If you were about to like, hey, do you have a word for the church.
You would lean into the gift of you would lean to the Holy Spirit like what would you say? And yet we don’t steward this gift of faith and we wonder why like man, why are people like falling away? And so it’s for me. It’s choosing like daily like holy spirit help me with the gift of faith and I think there are some people that are so naturally gifted by But I would say I, what I love about Jesus is that we are called to faith.
We are not called to know. And let me unpack that statement by he says he used, obviously we know the scripture he uses faith, the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. And I don’t know about you, but I’ve never seen anybody move a mountain. And yet he used the smallest like common known to man.
thing to describe the size of faith that you need. And so I’m encouraged by this. I’m encouraged by the fact that I actually haven’t seen like a mountain move and yet all he wants is for me to just trust. And faith cannot exist without trust. So your doubts are warranted, like your doubts are like, you couldn’t have, you couldn’t have faith in the unseen without a little bit of doubt.
And so while you wrestle with deconstruction, if you are struggling with doubt and fear and all this stuff, can I urge anybody to actually pray that he would help you in this gift that he has given of faith? And I just think. in that place that the questions make a lot more sense and the answers are easier to swallow.
Ryan Loche: Yeah. What’s the believe Lord, but help me help my own belief. Like the God wants to meet us there. Yeah. That’s amazing. You mentioned stewarding, like coming with faith as a worship leader. What is that? I’d say what’s practically, how’s that look like, what’s the, there’s not going to be like a one, two, three step, but what does that look like that definitely piqued my interest as a worship leader what, how do I steward faith versus trying to, like you said, we can say, hey, sing, hey, shout, let’s, you can do all that stuff and go crazy, but,
Alexander Pappas: Yeah. The answer we don’t like is stewarding it outside of, your rostered position.
Ryan Loche: That’s it.
Alexander Pappas: That, that is the it’s a big one. It’s yeah. There are people that are, there are people that are just so gifted, like an anointed, like for it.
And and there’s some of us that just have to do the journey of growing in gifting and talents practically like singing and all that, whatever. But like it’s something that we got to grow in, like we got to work on. And I think from there I think one thing really, practically, and spiritually is I’m always reminded the way I lead personally when I’m entrusted to lead a room is I tend to remind myself of Genesis chapter 32, where Jacob wrestles.
Debatable. Some translations say with God, some say an angel . I’m not here to fight the semantics. There. I’ll back you up. It’s God. Yeah. ,
Ryan Loche: it’s supposed to be. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I got rebuked
Alexander Pappas: at a church one time. I was like, it was an angel and I was like,
Ryan Loche: we, yeah, we’ll save theology.
Talk for another podcast, . Yeah.
Alexander Pappas: No, I was like, that wasn’t the point. Anyway, the point here is as he wrestles all night and. The man, as some translations say, is let me go for it is almost daybreak. And he says, I will not let you go unless you bless me. And I have really, honestly, I think it started with I’m throwing a little bit of church on, but anyone, I think the worst room to lead worship in might be staff meetings. People who are doing ministry, like, all the time they’re leaning in on Sundays, and they’re great at worshiping and singing on Sunday, and staff meeting is so tough. But I’ve always been, like, man, if I’m entrusted to lead, man, I’m bringing a stubborn faith that Lord, I’m not gonna do this unless you bless it.
I I refuse to I refuse to sing your praises. and not have you, and not have the expect, this stubborn expectation that you would show up. And so for me, practically of like, all right, I want to make sure I am bringing faith. That is, there is a stubborn quality to it that I’m going, God I’m not going to let you go unless you bless this moment.
And I think the significant thing about that scripture is he goes, yeah, cool. And he touches. the socket of his hip and he walks with a limp like the rest of his life. So I know that more than that, like that posture of stubborn faith to a congregational setting does not necessarily look like, wow, what a, the Lord moved so powerfully today.
Like it can outwork itself. So like literally, two nights ago, I was leading worship at my church. We did church on a Saturday night because we couldn’t get the building on Sunday. So we did church Saturday night and I was like, so stubborn and stirred up in my faith for it. And it got to the point where it was like, I actually had in a weird way I was like, I feel like I have nothing to say or sing like over this moment.
I feel like we’re not there. And I’m, and I want, and I’m like, I want us to get there. Like we’ve got this ministry time and I literally just had nothing to say, but I was full of faith and there was silence and this never happens to me that I don’t feel like I have something to sing over the church.
And. And I just went silent and just the room started singing. The room started leaning into faith. And then like from there, I felt like the drop and it was like, I started singing about in the context of the room, I just started singing about him giving us new eyes and new ears, like in the kind of the context of the message and that night.
And man, the room erupted. Our service went 40 minutes late after that. But at a certain point, to me, I was like, I think I got nothing. I got nothing. But I’m stubborn and full of enough faith that he is not got nothing. And watching it outward. And it did. So it looked, it looked like I had a janky hip.
But he answered any move.
Chris Bellamy: The, this community worship nights, I’ve seen multiple artists post about this today specifically. And I saw that you’re part of it. What is that? What, just can you describe what the concept is behind that?
Alexander Pappas: Man, there’s an amazing group of people that were, their heart was for her.
Pardon my description of this but heart for like smaller communities that don’t get artists like coming through very often and and yeah, so like this I’m actually got a meeting with them today because I’ve not personally met them yet, but they are this organization is just really feel called to champion like smaller cities and smaller churches and just, or, and, the, I think the slogan of it is like, 50 small cities, like one great God.
And I’m super excited to just partner and, we’re just putting on these like acoustic kind of community worship nights. And I’m really excited, man. It’s in essence, it’s like a writer’s round. But like, All of us are man, I don’t want to, if it’s a worship night, man we’re learning each other’s songs and different artists are going to worship together.
And yeah, I just I’m really excited to be able to go to different rooms like that. And I have no context of what kind of churches we’re walking into, and I’m just approaching it with that stubborn faith. I’m like the Lord wouldn’t have brought me here. If if he didn’t want to show up in whatever way it looks like, I hope to walk out without a limp personally.
But really excited to, to be able to do these nights.
Chris Bellamy: So is each night would one night just be you or the, it’d be multiple artists.
Alexander Pappas: Yeah. I think most nights, like it’s their goal was like 50. It was crazy, man. Like he, the, yeah. The guy who started it, his goal was to maybe have 50 churches around the country say yes to these things.
He’s saying something like over 500 churches responded thrilled to have these nights. And I can’t do all 50. I think i’m doing like 20 something. And and so yeah, so the first run of shows i’m with a amazing young artist named Kay Thompson and a band called Klein. You And yeah, we’re just the three acts, if you will, are up there all together.
Doing a little sing along little worship night. And it’s, it’ll be cool. And it’s a different artists but more or less, all those nights we’ll have about three or four artists.
Chris Bellamy: Okay. And will you be just doing your original songs or will you mix in like young and free classics with it?
Alexander Pappas: I intend, yeah, I intend to share some of the good ones.
Chris Bellamy: So that leads me to a question that we have gotten probably a million times. How does a small church do a young and free song or a high energy song? How do you translate that into just an acoustic guitar and a bass? Pad the keys player or something.
Yeah.
Alexander Pappas: It’s it’s a great question and we’ve endeavored through the years to release versions that are stripped back and all that stuff But I mean our even though, those songs were so built out you know in production and all that stuff We always endeavored to how does but how does it feel on a piano? And how does it feel that way? And I’ve been playing a kind of a stripped back version of real love the last couple of years on the road. And I think it’s pretty, I, I encourage anyone who wants to do it, go for it and write your own little, whoa, if you want, I’ve got one that I came up with, so I don’t do the I don’t do it live, even though that actually is my voice.
Sample that sample is initially it was down the octave pitched up and it sounded weird. So I just did it up and but Yeah, I don’t do that on the strip back run. But yeah, I think it’s I think it’s so fun I think like I grew up with When I became the worship leader of my youth band when I was 17, like I played guitar You Like, to this day, don’t trust me with the lead guitar parts.
Don’t do it. But my best friend played trumpet, and he was an insane trumpet player. Dude, he was playing like, take it all like
Like On the trumpet and we’re just like playing these songs man And so i’ve always just loved to like man the lord has put exactly what you need in your hands for like for such a time as this and so Like I just have witnessed him time and time again show up In such cool ways when we just say yes to what like to steward well what he’s given us And so like I truly i’m like it to me.
It’s fun I’m, like man, we don’t have a stack like hillsong la Sorry, if any of our team are listening like we do not have a stack team of employed full time musicians. We’ve got faithful people who love to serve in our church and we just make it work to the context of our service and I Love being creative.
I love Adjusting and making it work because more than the fact that it just makes me think and think about my church and think about my room But beyond that is like I think he just shows up in such great ways when we just say yes
Chris Bellamy: When you go through such a massive leadership change, my home church just went through a massive leadership change and the big question is do you stay or do you leave?
How do you like wrestle with that? Like, how do you know whether to start fresh or how to stay committed to the people that you’ve been shepherding?
Alexander Pappas: Totally, man. I don’t think there is a, I don’t think there is a right or wrong for me personally, it was just is, does this church preach truth?
Yes. Does, is there a good community that challenges me and encourages me? And at the end of the day, I think one of the most important things to me of my checklist personally is, Are there people there that I want to get lunch with after church? honestly, you know the community like If there are people that I want to do life with and and I said as I said the teaching’s right and so at the end of it, it’s just Pray, and for me personally like i’ve got that have moved on after the changes we’ve been through, and I have no, I harbor no judgment or disagreement for their, whatever their reasonings be.
For me personally I felt the Lord say, stay. And and there have been times in the last two years, in full disclosure, that I’ve definitely been like, Why, Lord? Like, why are you still saying stay? I could move to Nashville. I could be riding with all my friends every day instead of having to fly every two weeks and be tired. And it’s funny in saying that, like the last maybe four months in in, in what would be two years of this kind of journey has been so fruitful for me personally in my faith, in community. And just what we’re starting to see, like the Lord do, like even just our service the other night, I’m like, that’s why.
And so I think I just think the mantra I’ve always lived by is you never come second by putting God first. So if you feel like your decision to stay or go is putting God first, You’re not making the wrong decision.
Chris Bellamy: That’s crazy. You talked about the lunch thing, because my wife and I had that exact conversation.
I don’t want to find a new lunch crew. These, I’m going to go to lunch with them. Inevitably. I might as well go to church with them,
Alexander Pappas: yes, bro.
Chris Bellamy: That’s great. Brian, you need to cut that clip. Cause that’s that’s the answer above all answers. Just like
Ryan Loche: right there. That’s it.
Chris Bellamy: Yeah.
That was great.
Ryan Loche: Yeah.
I’d love to just hear, it’s funny. At one point, Chris said are you going to bring back some classic young and free stuff?
Which is like amazing to me that like young and free is now classic stuff. Like it just feels like wild that this world of worship is gone. I guess I’m just, I’m getting I’m processing my own age at this point, but I just love to hear what do you, what’s your just take on where you think worship is going?
I teach worship students, like I teach some worship classes and I’m always like telling the students, the 19 year olds man, I can’t wait to see what your churches are going to be here in five or 10 years. Cause it feels it’s something new. I don’t know what it’s gonna be, but there’s a sense of what’s been done in the past It’s like that’s time.
That’s good But it’s in the past and we’re gonna do this new stuff But we’re still it feels like we’re in a little in between maybe I don’t know you feel that or what? What do you think or hope maybe you’re just gonna be like,
Alexander Pappas: man, I This is how i’ve been describing it. Lately is if I so if I bear with me on this answer but I could if I ever talk of the do a songwriting lecture or whatever.
I like, I talk about three things. I talk about melody. I talk about lyrics and I talk about revelation. And I think that is applicable to beyond church music because like even a good pop song has revelation. Even a good love song has something that you’re like, Whoa, you scratched something new about like you, you brought a new vantage point on love, and my point being with that is I intentionally do revelation last. For this reason is don’t wait to have it all figured out to, and don’t wait to go Oh, I’ve got something so profoundly like new to say is because like young and free was criticized when we started that our lyrics were shallow
Ryan Loche: and
Alexander Pappas: Like this and I’m like, we were 20. I think I was 21, 22 when it started, like when we started writing the songs. Some of the guys were 17 years old. And you’re like, so what did it sound like? It sounded like a bunch of people who just loved Jesus. And wanted to write songs about Him. And I just, look at what the Lord did with people just saying yes, and candidly, there was a level of fearlessness to it.
That is what I would say to any of the 19 year olds blah, blah, blah strive to write good melodies. Challenge yourself to learn about lyric writing, and alliteration, and internal rhyme, and, go for it! But don’t wait to have it all figured out. Be bold, be fearless, and just watch how good God is, that He will show up.
And to me, I just think there’s gonna be the next thing is a fearless. is a fearlessness to it and young and free. I describe it as it was the wildest like occurrence of really I think it was awesome, but it was like the intersection of technology, like people being able to make songs on their, on logic on their computer.
And pop music being like one to one relevant to a church setting and it’s not right now, like what is I hear on top 40, I don’t necessarily want to sing in church in the same. And maybe I’m wrong. I’m not the 20 something year old that’s going to usher in the next thing. But I think I think there’s just a level of whether it be sonically, whether it be lyrically, there is a fearless nature of just like my main thing is like seeking the presence of God, seeking like whatever, however that looks like.
And so I don’t think I reinvented the wheel. With a great awakening by any stretch of the term But I it felt like the first thing in a while that I was like fearless. .
Ryan Loche: Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. We have something new that we’re putting together. You can go through this podcast with your team and we have some discussion questions for you.
If you’d like to get those discussion questions, head on over to Instagram and shoot us a DM. We would love to chat with you. God bless.