In this episode we had a chance to talk to Terrian about songwriting, leaning into your calling wherever that as, her story, and much more!
Podcast Transcript:
Welcome to the Church Collective podcast. In this episode, myself and Chris had the opportunity to talk to Tarian. Super fun. He’s been out on tour with her, so it was cool to have that personal connection, but I think you’re going to find a lot of wisdom on just how to go about focusing on the Lord in everything you’re doing, and how to really figure out what it means to do local church ministry, what it means to be songwriting, what it means to do touring, and all that.
I think you’re going to love it. Here we go.
Terrian: Man, I, first of all, I love being in the studio more, I think, than being on stage. I, yeah, man I love the process of just creating the song and just going down different just rabbit trails of is this the right thing here? Let’s go and explore this. Something about that just brings so much life. And so I had fun the past three years just making the album. Yeah, and sure it can be like, man, this is this taking too long? But overall being in the studio, man I love that.
Chris: Where did you track? Did you track it in Nashville or like who was producing it?
Terrian: Yeah, I tracked it in Nashville. I started with I want to say Jordan Malowski so Jordan is a producer, Micah Kuyper, Kyle Williams from We Are Messengers, and also Joel Setian. He’s a newer, younger guy, and he did about, I think, five or six songs on the record.
Chris: Okay. And what writers did you
Terrian: have on it?
Toby’s a writer Gabe Petillo, who was with us, he’s on a few of the songs. Kyle, Joelle, Benji Cowart Jordan Malowski, Micah, I don’t think, no, Micah didn’t write on there. Dave Lubin. I don’t know if Dave Lubin at all but he’s out of Portland, but he’s really good friends with Toby.
And then we had the very last song on the album that was that happened at the very last minute. And that was with Bailey Hager and Bobby Strand. And that one was a lot of fun to make.
Chris: So a lot of our listeners are like worship leaders. Worship musicians. And a question we get a lot is like that the pursuit of the next level, do I want to be an artist?
Do I want to write songs? How, like, how did you go from, cause I know you’re, you grew up involved in church and how did you transition? From being a worship leader and somebody serving in church to like deciding to be an artist and having a career.
Terrian: I think when I started to tour, that, that gave me space to really ask, am I to be one that’s serving every week in the church?
And I think, when you’re able to recognize like your lane. Just recognize it, it’s better for you and everyone else around you, and so I think touring is what gave me that answer of, I don’t think I’m supposed to be one who is in church every weekend serving on the church team, and so now when I go to church, I’m, Man, I’m there to learn and listen and, feel conviction, feel all the things, so yeah, touring helped me figure that out.
Chris: What was, how did you go from, I know you were on American Idol and then. Somehow in between you got hooked up with Toby and goatee records.
Like how did that whole process go?
Terrian: After American idol ended for me, my manager says, we need to get you on Toby Mac’s team. And yeah, so we knew someone, mr. Terry Hoff, who worked in. the neighborhood I grew up in. He ran and ran a non profit organization. He knows Toby’s manager and had always said, if you guys want the connection, I would love to connect you to Toby Mac.
But I didn’t really know who Toby was. So it just flew over my head. So yeah, she just said, we need to get you on Toby Mac’s team. She reached out to Mr. Terry and Mr. Terry connected us to Dan. And then. Dan was very kind to have us out in Franklin and I wrote with their writers and producers.
I ended up signing to the label and joining Toby’s band in 2017. That was simultaneous. Yeah, huh.
Chris: Yeah, I didn’t know which one first.
Terrian: Yeah, it all happened just I think we knew we were gonna sign the contract that summer, and I think we signed it in August, but I started touring with him in July.
Chris: Go ahead, Ryan. I got a million questions, but I’m okay.
Ryan: I’d love to even jump in. I’m trying to think Even those that would be listening I’d love to hear, the achievements that you’ve achieved, yeah, achievements you’ve achieved have been awesome. I’m just, I’m trying to wonder, like when you started singing what kind of training did you have?
What moments were like, Oh, I think this is more than just, something that I enjoy doing. I’ve got a 13 year old daughter. She’s learning how to sing and, you get those moments of all those aspirations. But yeah, I’ve just maybe love to hear a little bit of your story and how God.
Knit it all together.
Terrian: I started singing in my granddad’s church at five And that’s when my family realized she maybe there’s something here, Yeah, and then I just had a bunch of teachers and mentors over the years that kept just Pushing me to just sing more and more. And that’s how I became better over the years is just having teachers who would challenge me, and put me in front of massive audiences.
And so I’m just grateful for that, and choir was a big thing. I think that just the ability to learn harmonies at a younger age, was huge, So you’re just my ear, and developing that. But I think the crazy thing about signing when I did, I sang at a French church the summer I, the summer after I graduated high school and there was this guy there and he comes up to me after I sang and I, and he said, in three years, you’re going to sign a record deal.
He’s that’s what the Lord told me to tell you. And I was. I was like, Oh, okay we’ll see what happens, surely three years later, man, I signed a record deal, that summer, I think I just spent those years just doing what I could to just prepare and just become better, yeah.
Ryan: Yeah. It’s super important to actually have. Some instructors, I think, make a big difference. Do you have any any thoughts on just like the place of choir in the church? That seems to be something, obviously it’s not as prominent, but there’s still some churches that are rocking it. And sometimes it feels like we get little moments on yeah, choirs are cool, and then they don’t.
Yeah, any thoughts on that?
Terrian: They never left the black church. I tell you that like they are the it’s the bread and the butter of black church, You know, the worship leader thing is new I think and I think it’s Changing a bit more and in the churches that I grew up in to more of a worship leadership thing but the more traditional black churches, they’re still holding it down with choirs and I Love it.
I love a good choir man. So it’s cool to see more and more choirs popping up. I think in CCM music I hear it on singles all the time now, but it’s a part of my upbringing, yeah, that’s
Chris: great so your newest, Single honestly, we just need jesus I’m, I was listening to it and I was watching the video actually, because Diego shared it because he said he was, and I was listening to it and I’m trying, I first, I need to know, like, when did you write it?
Because I was trying to think of all the things you’re saying, or when you listen to it, they’re really deep. And I’m trying to like, think, okay, what time period was this and what was going on? In the world when this was written, so i’m curious like what sparked some of those especially the verses,
Terrian: 2020 2020.
Yep. That’s exactly when we wrote it. Or it was early 2021 actually it was it’s one of those but I think for me, I was just on my phone far too much and I think you know I know a lot of people probably Were at the time, but just how it just consumes You know, and I think opinions being formed without community around you will just send you to a place that is just not healthy, I think and so that song was written as me just be honest, just put it out there and just say the thing that you need to say and just get it off of your chest.
And when we were searching for the chorus honestly, I think we just need Jesus just fell out of me and we knew then okay, that’s it right there, that’s the thing that’s gonna gel what it is you’re wrestling with in these verses is this all goes back to christ and what he has to offer us and And the life that he modeled that we strive to live, so
Chris: yeah Because i’m listening to it and i’m like, okay this pertains Exactly to right now, but obviously you didn’t write it yesterday, so The whole time i’m trying to think like this is crazy because It seems like it could pertain to any Time and history,
Terrian: Yes, and I think each generation has faced Craziness, and just madness around them, and I think culture is gonna continue to evolve you know, we’re living in a modern world and Things are going to become more modern.
I am sure 50 years from now, we’re going to be like, what is going on? Even more so than now, but the one thing that is steady and that doesn’t change is Jesus Christ. And that’s why we’re going to always need him, and so just realizing how powerful it is to just say that, that’s just what it is.
We need him.
Chris: Is the video is awesome. But somebody that has a fear of heights, it gave me a little bit of anxiety. Like I was like thinking about like how the shots are getting, you know, was that, first off, was that New York city?
Terrian: That was New York city. Okay. And it was so scary.
Chris: I was going to say, were you scared at all? Cause
Terrian: Oh man. So, first of all, I will say this, we pay for one. One day to be on that rooftop. And we were up, I think, above 24 floors, and so we get up there and I try, I only have one leg over the building on one of those shots and I’m like trying to look back over at Diego so he can get a shot.
He’s on another roof, like filming me. And then I was just like, I’m sick to my stomach right now. My legs are like so weak and I just couldn’t do it. I could only do a 45 seconds to a minute of that. But then I get to the hotel that night. And I literally tell myself, I was like, Terry, you are from North Memphis, how are you going to chicken out like that on that rooftop, and so I was like, you know what, I gotta see if we can get another day on that rooftop. And so we went back the next day and I was like, I’m going today and I’m going to sit on the edge of that building. So I went up there, I did it. My husband was there and he’s baby got this. You can do it.
You can do it, but yeah we got the shot. It was scary, but I, but we did
Chris: it. Did you have a harness? That was green screened or something or was just. You’re just on it.
Terrian: Just it. I’m not doing it again. That’s what I will say. That literally
Chris: makes my heart flutter right now. I’m just thinking about it.
Terrian: I, just being up there, man, my knees were so weak and I’m like you just think I could fall forward, like this is that’s all I was thinking is I was like, oh my goodness, this is trippy, man. This is so trippy.
Chris: One thing I noticed about you that was crazy when we were on the the Toby Zach, it’s hard for me not to say the TMZ tour, but the TMZ tour was, you have such a huge like energy and personality on stage.
And then off stage you’re very like, you introverted. Yeah, like that’s a crazy like contrast. It’s pretty stark, and how to pertain to worship leaders, some people say that’s just not my personality. When they get on stage, like, how do you transform into somebody?
That’s, what do you harness?
Terrian: Man, I think. You have to ask yourself as someone who is introverted, unless I’m around my friends, what’s needed for the moment? What am I here doing, right? And for Toby’s show specifically, his show has so much energy and dancing and all of this, And we all understand this is what we’re being asked to do, this is what we’ve seen.
So let’s go and do it with excellence and do it as onto the Lord, and I’ve, I like to watch theater stuff growing up as well. So just like performance in general is something that, that I’ve always loved just musicals, and I got to be in like a community. Musical, in high school.
And so I think that’s always just been a part of me. So that’s just the outlet to do it, but most of the time I can be pretty introverted and chill and relax, but when I’m around my friends, I think you’ll probably see the similar thing that you see on stage with my friends. Yeah. A
Chris: lot of times I just saw you like walking around the hallways by yourself or sitting, like sometimes you’re in catering by yourself.
You
Terrian: know? Yeah. Just a loner, man. Yeah.
Chris: Toby’s pretty boisterous. But, um, what is it like, serving with your husband? Cause there’s a lot of people in our audience that like their worship leaders and their husbands are on staff and, and they’re just like working with their husband and being at home with their husband, what is that like?
Terrian: People have wondered this what is that dynamic between us while we’re on the road? But the reality is we actually work in two completely different worlds on the road. He’s a stage manager, so he’s up much earlier than I am and he’s in bed. We’re leaving the building much later than I have to, so when we see each other, it’s probably like 20 minutes at dinner, because as the stage manager, he has to make sure like all of the things are where they need to be and secure and we’re going to be safe to do this show, and so I, I don’t get to see him as much as people probably would think I do.
So it’s not that do you guys see each other too much? Like we get tired of each other, it’s not that kind of a thing, so yeah,
Chris: I didn’t even know. I think last day of tour, somebody mentioned that you guys were married and I was like, yeah,
Terrian: yeah yeah.
Ryan: What’s we’d love to hear what’s your in ear mix sound like it’s always different for everybody, but what are you leaning on?
Terrian: I’m trying to get used to my new ears right now. But I like a pretty bright vocal. You don’t really have to give me Reverb in my ears if you do it doesn’t have to be much, But a bright vocal if I can hear a solid key center. So a good bit of keys And then I need like the BGVs behind me, cause I have a lot of choir and gang vocals in my tracks and stuff.
Yeah,
Ryan: yeah. Any you got any war stories for ears not working for you?
Terrian: Oh man. I think the first time, so I made the bad decision of using my new ears. Like for a show without trying them in practice. And so I just, I was not ready for it, and so it’s just after one of the songs and I just ran to the side, I was like, where are my old ears?
Can I get my old ears? I just switched them out really fast. I was like, this is going to take some time, yeah.
Ryan: Do you always wear both of them or do you like pull one out to hear the room? This is again a hotly debated worship leader topic We all know. Yeah, we know what’s the better thing to do, but
Terrian: Yeah, I think it depends on the room.
And if some if a room is too dry Sometimes it’s, it gets a little weird in my ears. And so I pop just one out but they’re always in at B stage. Otherwise we are going to be singing in two completely different tempos, so, yeah. But I try to keep both in as much as I can, but sometimes you got to pop one
Ryan: out.
There’s the PSA for everybody. Yeah. Better for your ears to keep them both in. Yeah. We’re supposed to do, but yeah, it can be difficult to Yeah, difficulted sometimes. Do you, so go ahead. I
Terrian: started out with All Clear and then now I have is it Jerry? Jerry Harvey? Yeah, J. H., yeah.
Yeah,
Chris: which, do you know which J. H. you have?
Terrian: I don’t. They just ordered them for me. I, yeah but I’m pretty used to them now. Now I’m like, okay, I, my ears have, They’re locked in a
Chris: little more now. Because what you described is exactly how I felt when I switched over to them. Yeah.
Terrian: Yep. Like it freaked me out a little bit.
I was like, Oh my goodness. But yeah, we figured it out.
Chris: They’re awesome. But yeah, I thought about sending them back at first. Cause I was like, I don’t like this. This is
Terrian: yeah. Yeah. Hey, there was so much low end and I’m, I would, I was not used to that. But our monitor guy, Heath, he messed around with that little stereo there, for me and it leveled things out a bit for me.
Chris: That’s funny. I met so many people that say the same exact thing. Yep. It’s so different than other years, but I love them now.
Terrian: Yeah, me too. Me too. I think they grow on you and you’re like, yeah, these are it.
Chris: Yeah. They don’t lie to you though. Yeah.
Terrian: No, they don’t. Not at all. Did you,
Chris: did you have any dance, like training before joining Tobii or did you just?
Terrian: Yeah, no, I didn’t. I think had a lot of, we, the generation I’m from there, that’s when all of the dances were coming out, so a lot of it was just trial and error with my friends and them looking at me and going, Oh my gosh, you’re so stiff. What are you doing? And just trying to like, get better and keep up with them.
Cause they had far more rhythm than I had, and so it just came over time and I just found myself. Yeah. in productions where I have to dance and move around, yeah.
Chris: Yeah, we, cause I, there was one night when I was watching y’all’s show with our backup singers and we were like, man, she’s got, she, they were like, she can dance.
And I was like, I wonder if she’s got like training or is that just like natural,
Terrian: yeah, it came over time, man. Came over time. Yeah.
Chris: Now, inspired. She, our backup singers were like, we need to dance more. And I’m like, I can’t.
Terrian: I love your guys background singers, man. They were so fun. And super sweet and kind because I shared a room with them every day.
And I loved being able to hear them in the mix out front. Yeah, they were super
Chris: cool. I miss, it’s been only about a month and I miss them. Yeah,
Ryan: yeah
Chris: Okay from your new album if there’s say there’s a church, you know Looking for new material things to add to their set list like which songs would you point them to first?
Terrian: I would point them to forever holy Yeah, I’d point them to that one. And then I know some churches they always do less like corporate worship songs during like the offering section or at the end of the service so I would point them to he sees you for that song.
Chris: Okay What about a high energy song?
Terrian: High energy song. It depends on the church. Now some churches, I literally sang Big God at an Easter service in Hawaii. You want that kind of high energy, I would probably go with Big God.
Chris: I was watching that I think yesterday and the video for that and I was like this would be a sick song to open a service with just to get people in the morning,
Terrian: yeah absolutely man. It is that kind of song and then you add a full band behind it and it’s like even more so that
Chris: yeah. So what what’s in store for you for the I know what you’re doing for the rest of the year because you’re doing Hits Deep and then we’re doing another tour.
Yeah. What do you got in
Terrian: store? I think we’re just going to be doing our best to promote this album, and I’m looking forward to just getting back in the studio because I know how fast like three years can roll back around, so I’m like, you know what, it’s time to actually start just writing again.
And I know I just finished production in November, but. Time to go right again, I look forward, to doing that. But yeah, we’ll be doing a lot of album promo and hopefully not hopefully, but there are a ton of like shows outside of Toby stuff that, that I’m that’s lining up, so
Ryan: yeah. What is it you mentioned at the start of the episode that you’re. You like the stage or you like the studio more than the stage. I’d love to hear that can, I’m sure there’s a lot of people that resonate with that. And there’s probably others who are like, I can’t possibly live if I’m not on the stage, especially like our, a lot of our audiences, worship leaders, like that’s unfortunately how we define ourselves.
There’s 20 minutes on the weekend, but maybe just, speak to what is it about the studio? That’s really like resonates with you.
Terrian: I think the freedom that comes in the studio to just explore it is the. The one place you get to truly explore your artistry and come up with stuff and explore dumb ideas, and just fail and then get back up and fail again and get back up until something lands.
And I think also that moment when you know you’ve struck gold. It’s so exciting, or the moment where you’re just having so fun because the beat is where it needs to be, or the moment that makes you tear up, there’s just so much that you experience in a studio and being able to hear your voice back and critique it and go, okay, we need to do this better.
We need to do, so I just love the process.
Ryan: What what kind of music, I mean it could be for this album, but just in general, like what kind of music are you inspired by? What do you run towards? Like you’re like, I wanna, were you trying to emulate anything? Or maybe just, yeah, what are your influences?
Terrian: Yeah I always reference like Kirk Franklin and Mary, especially for the gospel stuff, yeah. I love the production of John Belion. I, he’s just really good at what he does. It’s creative. And I think not being afraid to be creative, especially in our market. I’m like, Hey just do it.
Just explore it. It’s for somebody, it might be for more people than you realize, And so yeah,
Ryan: yeah. Were there any anything that made the album that you thought probably wasn’t going to make the album when you started it? But it ended up being, oh yeah, no, this is supposed to be there.
Terrian: Ah, there, I think there is one. Which one was that? I, you know what, I feel like feel it almost Didn’t make it. I had to fight really hard for that one to get to where I wanted it to be. I feel like most of the team was like unsure about it. But once I got to a place where I loved it, we added real drums.
I was like, you know what? Add some real drums on it. So I asked Brian Ramey from Toby’s Band. I was like, dude, send me a simpler pass. And then on the other one, just go ham. Just go have fun. And that kind of brought it to life even more. Yeah.
Ryan: What do you, this would be, like, really helpful for the songwriters that are listening, but how do you know when you should continue to chase after something or when you should, just put it aside?
You’re like, that idea is not going to go anywhere. I feel like, how do you determine which one needs some work, which ones can go out to pasture? Which again, might come back five years later, but yeah, like, how are you determining what needs the energy?
Terrian: My, if my heart’s just not in it. If this is not reflective truly of my story and the stories of people around me, I’m like, we can just move on from this.
We don’t have to, we don’t have to do this. I, I know for sure every song that I’ve written, I’ve been extremely excited about. And so if I don’t have that, I’m like, it’s probably just not for me, and that’s okay.
Chris: I’d like to talk about, a good friend of mine, Jeremy Rosado, was also on American Idol.
And when he got let go of that, it literally crushed his growth. He talks about it as part of his testimony. And I’ve known other people that have a similar story. Was that how hard was it for you? Did it crush you?
Terrian: Like it absolutely crushed me. I was really sad. I don’t, I, there’s something about being told no on that platform that man, that can rip your heart out of your chest.
The first week of Hollywood week, I knew okay, I felt I was going to make it through, but then when that second. The week I had to fly out for, I think that was top 48 the Holy Spirit was trying to prep my heart and say, Hey, you’re not going to make it through this. And I just kept ignoring the warning signs, and just kept holding out on hope.
It was like, maybe I’m just being anxious about this, and when it was no, man, I. I took that real hard for two months. I was like, just sad and just feel like feeling like I had missed out on something and not sure about what my career would look like. Until I just had that moment of, you know what, Lord, I only want for my life what you want for my life.
So whatever door you’re going to open, that’s the door I’ll walk through. And if it’s not for me slam it shut, please. And that’s just what I live by right now.
Chris: It’s wild to me how many people like Jeremy was telling me that Lauren Daigle was on his season. I didn’t know I didn’t, and then Colton Dixon was his roommate, and then, wow, I think Tasha Layton was on American Idol too it’s just wild how many people were told no on that show, but then look at them now, which is, it’s, 100 percent like, how do you okay, to make it pertain to a worship leader say they’re said they’re told no, as far as like a job offering or auditioning for something.
And how do you move forward and come back stronger?
Terrian: Man. The Lord’s plan. It’s just that’s just why I think what we have to learn to be willing to surrender to, if he is our father, he knows absolutely what’s best for us and when to give it to us and when not to give it to us, and so I think.
That’s where we, that’s the place in our faith that we’ve got to reach is how much are we willing to trust the Lord and what he wants for us. And, I think it’s easy to look at God and be like, oh man, he’s like trying to take away this from me or trying to take this. He might be actually, he might be saying, yeah, cause that’s not what you need, and I know we say this all the time, but he does know what’s best for us, that’s why he’s God, and that’s why he can be the God of all of our lives because he’s really good at it, and so I would just say that it’s just, man, if you could just get to a place in your faith where you are willing to just completely surrender to God’s will for your life, that will bring much more peace and you will not struggle as long with no’s and being told to wait, So that’s just, that’s what that journey with American Idol taught me,
Chris: it’s just crazy how many people have that, like a similar, they get crushed, but then it lights a fire and it turns into something later,
Terrian: yep. Absolutely, man.
Chris: Anyway it’s been 30 minutes, so I don’t want to steal the rest of your day, but that’s the final question.
Ryan: Man, I don’t, I guess I just love any parting wisdom for, young singers aspiring to, for all intents and purposes, you are everything a lot of people want to be.
What do you got what, which the, yeah, just what advice, what comes to mind?
Terrian: I think character is important. That’s what I think. I think it’s easy to work on your craft a bunch, while you’re trying to get to the next level or whatever, but your character, man, will speak for you down the line.
And I think it’s important as someone who, because you’ll get If you’re a singer, songwriter, you’re going to be opening a ton of businesses. So now you’re leading a business, and you have to be a leader, and it’s, are you going to have good character while you do that? And especially if you’re doing it as onto the Lord and you’re doing this to represent Christ, got to make sure we have that in check.
That’s important.
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