First off, you’ve gotta go check out Cody’s new album, God is Good! Then, after you’ve done that, come back here and check out the podcast where we dive deep on how Cody put the album together with an incredible team. We talk local worship ministry, songwriting, the future of the church, and a bunch more!
Podcast Transcript:
Ryan Loche: Welcome to the Church Collective Podcast. In this episode, myself and Chris had the opportunity to talk to Cody Carnes. What a fun conversation. I know he’s been on a few times. If you haven’t listened to him before, you can go back to the archives and pull up all the Cody Carns episodes. It was great. Fun fact.
Cody did this latest album and a live recording at his home church, The Belonging Co. And also Little Plug here. I’m the Academic Director for the Belonging Co College. Which is an extension site of Southeastern University, so you can get a fantastic degree that’s fully credentialed, and you can get all your experience at the Belonging Co.
I’d love to see you here. If you want any information, shoot me a dm. Would love to talk with you about it. But here we go with the Church Collective Podcast
Cody Carnes: This was such a fun process. I’ve been really in it for the last, almost I guess two years, cuz I wrote for about 18 months.
Yeah. And and I didn’t,
I wasn’t writing with the intention of I’m gonna make this project. I knew that I would make a project, but really the intention of writing was to just get together with friends and write songs for the church. And a lot of that, a lot of times those songs go all their different ways and they kind of land where they’re supposed to.
And that’s, Awesome.
And but after the eight, 18 months one day, I just realized, man, I really need to go back and look at all the songs and listen through all the songs that I’ve written, been a part of writing and just put ’em all in a folder together for the first time.
And so I did that and and thought I would maybe like six or seven of ’em and I ended up really loving 24 of them . Yeah. And it really caught me by surprise cuz I’m pretty quick to throw a song out if I don’t feel like. If I just don’t connect with it, I don’t feel like it really communicates what it should, or it’s just not that great of a song.
Yeah. And so having 24 that I really felt deeply connected to, I was like, Man, I, okay, now what do I do? And so that kind of, really dictated the process of this and We got that down to 20 songs and, I asked Aaron and Aaron Robertson and Austin Davis, if they would coce it, which is such a dream for me.
They’re both good friends and they’re both incredible producers on their own. And so having them come together was really special. And they built this incredible band. And we got in the studio for 10 days and we. We did the pre-pro process, which is just, getting in the studio and that’s where you get all the arrangements out, all the parts and the musical melodies.
And when we, when I walked into that studio, I had 20 songs and I had lyric chord and melody, and that’s about it, and and 20 songs in 10 days was a feat. That’s two songs a day you’re from starting, from scratch to yeah, this is finished arrangement, and but it was such a fun process and and it ended up being what, what’s gonna be two albums. I haven’t talked about that much, but, now is the time to. Tell people. So it’s, I did two nights, two separate albums. So the first album that’s coming out now God is Good, is the second night and it’s 10 songs and then there’ll be 10 more songs at some point next year.
We don’t even really know when yet. Just That’s awesome. Gonna have it in the pipe ready to go, but it was such a special process. The night, the nights were really powerful and so peaceful and so full of joy. There’s a lot of, there’s a lot of shots in the videos of us smiling and laughing and just having a great time.
And it really does feel like that’s the theme of this album is that. It’s a beacon of hope and joy and which I feel like is so potent out of the season that we’ve walked through and, and just this crazy chaotic season of depression and just uncertainty and what’s up from down.
And I’ve really wanted this project to be our, all right, here’s our center. Here’s Jesus, here’s his scripture, here’s his word and here’s the hope and the joy that we can have in it. And we really can have hope and joy in the midst of. And so I, that’s my prayer for this record, that it communicates that to people and that helps them find that for themselves.
Yeah. So have you spent
Ryan Loche: 18 months working on all the songs to talk a little bit, like what made you decide to do it live? Did you start there or, what was that like?
Cody Carnes: It’s my third record and I really, I’ve done two studio albums and so I really felt you know what? I think I think it’s time to do something live.
I just felt I just. God, speak to me about that a while ago and just whatever comes next. I just feel like it’s gonna be live and I had a kind of a a hard time with that, honestly, because I love the studio process so much. I love taking a song at a time, diving real deep into an arrangement for a long period of time and really tweaking a vocal and really, and I just love that process.
And it’s a lot less pressure, than. You have a live night to capture 10 songs and they have to be amazing. It’s like Cali and then the pressures of putting an event on and getting people to be there. And, but so I was really just, man, do I really wanna take on all this extra work?
And but I’m so glad that I did because the live experience for, especially for worship, Sure. There’s just nothing like it. Nothing like getting people in a room and everyone’s experience with Jesus compounding together in that moment is so powerful. And yeah, I’m really thankful that I did it live and now it’s Oh man, I just, I love, I wish I could go back and do it again.
as much work as it was it was really special. Who do players on
Chris Bellamy: the
Cody Carnes: on the recording? It is a combination of some players from Elevation, which is where Aaron’s from, and it’s a combination of some players from Nashville, from belonging where Austin is and I am. So we’ve got Austin and Aaron are both playing on it as well as co-producing it.
So Austin’s playing drums Shay Woo’s playing bass from Elevation, who is legend. There is so much crazy good bass stuff on these, on the. It’s just yeah, there’s already some in good. You can hear there’s some crazy he throws a minor riff over a major, like of one major. It’s crazy. It’s amazing.
But then we’ve got three guitars. It is guitar mcgon on this record. Casey Moore on Electric, who’s been on the road with us for a while, plays with Leland as well. Corey Pierce, who’s an amazing guitar player at church with us, and he plays with a bunch of different artists. And then E Edwards, who’s part of the Elevation Crew.
He played on them. Elevation Map City Record. He played on Brooks Record. And he’s incredible. Genius creative. Great execution, great guy to be around. Everybody’s amazing. And then we’ve got Evan Alvan Keys, who’s our main keys and MD at church here at the Belonging. He’s incredible. And then Aaron and Robertson’s doing all the synth, all the programming, anything synth, world strings, Metron, all this kind of stuff.
His. His like space of all of his gear was so funny. It looked like a spaceship. Literally. He’s got like stuff everywhere and he’s playing it all at the same time and yeah, it was really awesome. I think I covered everybody. . So it’s a great crew. Bernie Herms, the legend producer keys player, Natalie Grant’s husband.
He’s playing some organ on it cuz Natalie’s singing on a song that’s just mind blowing. And then I’ve got my wife is singing on a song called Forever on Men. And then Benjamin William Hastings, The Legend is on a song as well. A lot of fun features and friends on this. It really was just this collection of people.
These are, if I could just put all of my favorite people in one room doing what they do best, this is what it would look like. And everyone said yes. And I was just so blown away, yeah. So it really felt like this. I felt like I similar feelings to like when I was at my wedding day, and you’ve got all these favorite people and you’re like, I. This moment will never happen again. All these people in one room that’s very much how this felt to me. It’s man, this is just so special and significant. I’ve got some of my favorite worship leaders singing with me, from church and an amazing choir full of people that I love.
And so it’s just, it was really special. That’s cool.
Chris Bellamy: Are the same players gonna be going on the
Cody Carnes: road with you? That is the hope. I told them I do not wanna do a tour without you guys. No. That’d be, Sorry, I shouldn’t put ice in my mouth on a podcast . It’s one second. Let me choose this. It’s all good.
Okay. Yes. So that’s definitely the hope we’re working out a tour that we’re going to be announcing soon. It might be announced by the time this comes out. I don’t know when that is, but . But yeah, so that is definitely the hope that most of those guys make it on the road with me and it’s gonna be really fun.
I’m, it’d be my, it’ll be my first headlining tour and I’m super excited about it to take this album and all the other songs I’ve been a part of in the last few years, just to take those on the road. And do ’em that way for the first time, it’d be gonna be great.
Chris Bellamy: And you’re gonna hit elevation hard if you take all those
Cody Carnes: guys.
Yeah. I’m gonna have to ask for permission from our church too. I’m taking like, it’s like the best of our church, Best of, and it’s like, Guys, can I just have two? I just need two Sundays. Can I have two Sunday don’t hate me. is is
Ryan Loche: worship any. I guess different for you now that we’re I’d say we’re past the pandemic, but I guess technically we are still in the pandemic, but I, functionally we’re not like what kind of things?
We talked a little bit about this, I think last time we had you on the podcast too, but we were still in the thick of it back then, actually. Yeah. It was like the thick of it at that point. But yeah. What are your thoughts now, just on worship?
Cody Carnes: Yeah. I think that it has changed, I think in a lot of ways.
Like you said, functionally we’re not really in it as much anymore, which thank God. Yeah. But I feel like there’s still a lot of repercussions that. Can go unnoticed because physically it doesn’t look like the pandemic, but men just the toll, emotionally and mentally that we all had to walk through.
Yeah. And still now and those things they stick with you for a long time. And so I think I, I sense now that there’s some repercussions as the church that we’re now having to deal with. And really this, the heart of this record is to Be somewhat of the antidote is my heart to that, all that, yeah. I feel like the antidote to the depression and the confusion and the chaos and what’s up from down and what, if, in the pandemic it was like somebody said something and they said it was true and then we found out it wasn’t true and then this other person said something and said it was true and we found out it wasn’t true and it was like, okay and I feel like it, it was this massive attack on truth.
It was this massive attack on, okay, what actually is true? And now even coming out of it, I feel this sense of, everyone’s still a bit swirly. It seems like everyone’s still a bit like and now it’s let’s question Jesus and let’s question scripture and let’s question everything.
Let’s blow up everything. And it’s no, I, I. Let’s not do that. Let’s remember that Jesus is who he says he is. Let’s remember that. He’s good. Let’s remember that his word is true. Like we can’t start just busting up all the foundations that actually pulled us through the whole thing and.
And the things that we can secure and anchor our lives in, and so as a worship leader and a songwriter, that was just so that, that burden turned into a lot of these songs, which is, which are really just full of scripture. And the album’s called God Is Good and it’s, the cover is a billboard.
It’s that’s what I wanted this album to feel like is like this. Big statement that you can’t ignore when you’re seeing it is like, God is good. Let’s all remember that. Okay. Yeah. Let’s like, let’s not lose the truth of, because we can’t, We’re gonna go crazy if we do, and and so I really, yeah, I hope that I hope that as the church we can come back to the things that really matter.
I hope that we can, that we can. Really remember the things that we do agree on. The hope of Jesus. Yeah. And that and that, this season helps us, helped us identify maybe some of the things that we were really caught up in that actually don’t really matter, that actually aren’t important.
That actually somewhat our distractions from what the true purpose of our lives and the churches. And and I hope that we can sense what things need to be stripped away. Really just focus on the simple things and focus on the presence of God and focus on the heart of Jesus and loving each other, and and not so much all the other things that we can easily get distracted by, and yeah.
Ryan Loche: Yeah. Do you do you feel like the younger worship leaders. I’m trying to think of even the ones I interact with, like the, it feels different and I don’t quite know how to put a finger on it, but I’d just love to hear kinda what are your observations on the future of worship ministry, 10 years down, what do you think it’s gonna look like?
Cody Carnes: Interesting question. Yeah. Again,
Ryan Loche: knowing we don’t have a crystal ball, but just look to hear
Cody Carnes: your sense of it. Yeah. I don’t know. I I have hope, like I have, I say I don’t know. In a hopeful way. Not in a, like a cynical way. I guess that comes across the right way. I know, but I just say, I don’t know cuz I think there’s a lot, there’s a lot that.
We’re at this in a way. I think we’re at this fork in the road in a big way and everything I just said. Just, yeah. All right. We’re coming out of this crazy season now and okay, like, where, which way do we go? And and like I said, my prayer is that it we come, like what I just said we really find.
The prize in the simple things again. And I do sense that with the generation that’s coming up and I, I do sense this yeah, let’s, that’s consistent across the board with the gen, not just in the church or in. Anything to do with Jesus, but just across the board, like the generation behind us is I don’t want all your polished stuff.
Yeah. It’s I want that, this I love I’m laughing at this app that this new app be real, I’m like, a bunch of my friends are on it and I’m getting old man syndrome at this point with social media. I don’t wanna mess with that, whatever, And bunch of my friends around, it’s this is a thing and TikTok is very similar.
It’s we don’t want your polished thing. We want. We want whatever is very real. We don’t want your filters and we want your, And I think that’s actually really really great for the church though, to be honest. Yeah. If we apply that to the church and what this generation can bring to the church, we don’t want your polished stuff.
We want the real thing, and that is incredible. And I really hope that translates into worship and the songs that are written. And the moments that are happening. But I, my prayer is that it’s all founded on the truth, though. It’s not founded on opinions. That is the biggest attack I think that we are, that we’re facing is what is someone’s opinion and that and what is what is my truth?
What do I feel? Sure. Like the fact that I have the, that I the belief that I have. Like understanding of a moral compass in the world. To be my own decider of what is true is scary, I do not have that. I’m not capable of that. I have to look to God, I have to look to the one that, that created.
All the world revolves around and the source of everything good. I have to look at what does he say is true, and so my prayer is that we get to the real things, but that they’re, Founded in still the truth of who God is and what His word says, and that we don’t get too caught up in our own opinions and our own and we don’t get so prideful that we think that we can figure it out.
We, whatever I think must be true. It’s like man and understanding and that kind of, that fear and reverence of God again, that re the restoration of. God, I, I don’t know, but you do. And I trust you and I’m chasing after you, and I’m chasing after what’s true within you.
If we have that combination of that kind of pursuit of God and that kind of vulnerability and authenticity, and why would we not, that’s huge. I think we go from glory to glory. I think God leads us into greater things with each generation.
And I, yeah. That’s what I hope that happens.
Ryan Loche: Goodness. Yeah. That’d be
Chris Bellamy: fantastic. are the for the album cover, the photo, the billboard, Is that, where is that?
Cody Carnes: Can’t tell you . That was something that the designer Jay. I’m working with Avenir Creative House j rj. He’s amazing and his whole team is amazing.
It’s something that he found I couldn’t tell you where it is. But he can, it’s basically a mock up cover that we did, and then we’re, The cool thing is that we’re doing some billboards in different cities when the album launches. Yeah, we’re doing some real ones and then we’re gonna be filming, some, a couple of those.
I think there’ll be one in Nashville actually of 65. And then some other cities around Atlanta and California and Utah and the different things. So yeah, I’m excited to see some real ones. That’s just a, that’s just a design. And again, it was like my heart to, for it to be like, I was like, I feel like this record’s like a billboard, this statement, God is good with an exclamation mark, and yeah. Yeah, it was just Jay’s genius figuring that out.
Chris Bellamy: That’s super cool. I was like, Man, I gotta drive around and look for that sign. Somewhere in Nashville,
Cody Carnes: but I love it. It will be. Yep. September. How is things different
Chris Bellamy: now that you’re a dad? Are you, is it changing your writing style?
Is it changing your touring schedule? Like just your schedule in
Cody Carnes: general? It does, yeah. It changes my schedule so much. And I see
Chris Bellamy: your kids on Instagram on like on stage with you, so like
Cody Carnes: Yeah. . Yeah. I mean they travel with us a lot there with us, basically all the time, which is really fun.
We really try to keep them with us and make them a part of what’s happening, and this is really This is not just me and Carrie building some career. This is ministry, and it’s their ministry too. They’re a part of it. And they will continue, they will grow up into a part of it more and more and we really try to, just include them and help them experience these moments in the presence of God that we are experiencing. Those are such foundational building blocks for them and their soul and their spirit. And we travel a lot with them. At home it’s interesting, we’ve got all the same schedules that any dad, any parent does.
It’s like school and baseball and all the things that they’re getting into and music and we just have to navigate that as best we can. And it’s pretty chaotic, but, that’s normal for any parent. It’s just, you just and and we have a bit of a villa village of people now that help us
. We really created this little family dynamic with different people helping us. And so it’s fun and crazy and awesome, and our kids are getting into music pretty heavily. And that, that was without pressure from us or There’s no pressure to be in, into this, but they really are showing an interest at this point and these young ages, and it’s, that’s really fun.
My youngest is a really into the drums. He’s three. Yeah. And he’s actually, I don’t say this like dad bias. It’s still very dad biased. But he’s really good though. He’s got this like very natural sense. Of rhythm and tempo and where things should go. And he’s a sponge.
He’s just absorbing it all from watching people, from when we’re touring and watching people at church and watching people on YouTube, and he’s just absorbing this and he’s playing like full on six, eight grooves like in time, and I haven’t. I haven’t taught him anything yet. I’m just now at this point, I’m like, I wanna, I don’t wanna teach you until maybe you’re like four or five at least, because I much wanna see what you just what you just naturally figure out.
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s pretty unbelievable. And so he loves it. Like this morning even we were playing baseball outside and then he’s Dad, I wanna go inside and play loud music. And I was like, Let’s do it. . And we have this little luxury drum kit and he’s got this big old speaker that it’s hooked up to and he just cranks it to 11 and he’s Cool.
That’s so good and it’s awesome. So it’s fun, man. It really.
Chris Bellamy: Are you gonna be like LeBron, where you don’t retire until you can actually like, play with your kids? ?
Cody Carnes: Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I’m gonna, I’m gonna stay in it just so I can play with my kids. I, the rate that Kingston’s learning drums, I don’t think it’ll be very long.
I wanted to post on Instagram the other day, just be like, Over under on my son getting paid for his first drum gig. And the over under was gonna be like six . Gosh, start a pole .
Ryan Loche: Yeah, he’s gonna be, you think by the time he’s 15 or what it’s gonna be gnarly. That’s,
Cody Carnes: Yeah, it’s gonna be, I think of like Stephen Curtis.
His, Colony House is like such an incredible band and Stephen Curtis Chapman’s sons are lead singer and drummer. And I just think, man, what a, how fun is that? We’re actually, they’re playing in town tonight. I think we’re gonna go. That’s awesome. But yeah just that kind of stuff gets really excited.
And who knows what’ll happen, Kingston may be. I wanna be a science teacher and I’ll be Okay, cool. I guess put drums down. Yeah. But if, if they really continue to just be all in about it, then it’ll be, it’d be really fun. See what happens. Yeah.
Ryan Loche: One last question from our community seemed like a bunch of people I’ve said what would you, I’d like us to ask Cody and they said to have him tell us how to song write.
So just in a minute, , I can give the golden answer for that, but I know that tends to change. But
Cody Carnes: yeah. What do you. Man, I could talk about this for three hours, right? So maybe sometime we can do that. But , I think that man, the golden answer of songwriting. Let me think for a second.
You can edit this part, . Sure. But or not I. I think it’s important to, when you’re writing for the church especially, it’s important to have encounters with God while you’re writing songs and don’t just sit down and try to like, strive out a song, and songwriting is hard work and it takes discipline and it takes repetition and so there is a work element to it, but I think the songs.
They, they are what they’re supposed to be when they are written out of an encounter with God. And so I think when you get in a room and I love collaborating with people, I think it’s one of the best things you can do. So find other songwriters around you, get in a room together, Chase after those songs, but really chase after the presence of God and those moments and the songs are just right themselves at that point.
Yeah. And and it’s actually, I believe the song. I believe it’s the encounter in the song that people are actually drawn to when they listen to it. The reason why they love a song, I think is because of the encounter with Jesus that’s in it. That’s my belief and that’s my experience.
Yeah. The songs have connected with people that I’ve been a part of writing. I could tell you about each moment of them of. What that was like, and at the presence of God was in the room, and and so I think that, that’s gotta be the most important thing. And the great thing about that too is you don’t always write a great song.
You actually write probably 10 bad songs before you write one good one or 50 bad songs read. I don’t know. It’s it changes as you do it more, but still you write bad songs a lot more than you write good songs. And what’s great about just being in the presence of God with your friends is.
Even if you write a bad song that day, you were in the presence of God with your friends and it and it was, hopefully it was awesome and enjoyable. And I would also say that every writing session, every song you write you are going to learn something new every single time you’re going to get a new tool in your tool belt.
And that’s the point. And I think, so don’t get discouraged when you’re like, I wrote, tried to write today and it wasn’t very good and I don’t. Flip that and go, What did I learn today? Yeah. And I’ve started doing that and I’ll leave a session. I’m like, I don’t really fucking connect that song.
That’s okay. I don’t know if it’ll forever get used anywhere, but, Aw. But I, it’s interesting we did that chord over this melody, and that’s, I’ve never, I never thought about doing that before. And what’s crazy is that, Goes into your subconscious and then you never know when, that’s when that little tool you learn is gonna come out in a song that actually is really great and it needed that little thing that you learned, to really finish it and make it this special moment.
And I don’t know, you just never know. So yeah, just having the perspective of it’s repetition and it’s sitting down and doing it as a discipl. And each time you do it, you’re building blocks, to not really just even getting like a better at it, but more so just getting more efficient at it.
Because the more that you do it, you’re like, okay I now if I have a great idea, sometimes great ideas, they don’t know how to get fleshed out. They don’t know how to if you haven’t written songs a lot you have a great idea, but you don’t really know how to work it out.
Communicate it the right way. And the more that you write, the better communicator you come and it gets exciting. It’s like I have a great idea and I think I know one who I could write with to help me with it. And I know two, I think I know how to communicate it in a way that’s captivating and feels fresh.